in Rin's route. And here's why. (slight spoilers? but its okay the route is bad don't do it)
1. He's not endearing. He basically hangs around the art club because Rin is there, has no talent, and doesn't even make any other friends. He accomplishes nothing, except maybe encourage Rin to try to go for an exhibit. Contrast this to the other routes, where he helps Emi reconciliate with her dad (and has a plan for university), or Shizune get closer to her brother, by teaching him sign language. So he becomes generic, even to himself, and the route never resolves this problem.
2. He yells at Rin. Because she's bad at communicating. Which she tells him about earlier. So not only does he not "get" a large portion of Rin's character, he gets angry at her for it. Not only is this grade A jerk material, he also does it to Rin, who's probably the most stable of all the characters. He has the least reason to be angry with her, but also ends up doing it, to one of the more vulnerable girls in the game (Hanako being arguably slightly more vulnerable).
If at any point, he decided to get advice for his romantic troubles from someone in the game, they would've set him straight. But he doesn't, because to get the route to become contentious, he would've had to dismiss that advice. Because he's a jerk.
3. He never gets punished, for being a jerk, or making bad decisions. It's okay if people are jerks sometimes. As long as they realize they were wrong and there's penance. Hisao doesn't end up with any of that. He suffers no consequences for his actions, and as a result never seems to learn from his mistakes. He might've gotten better at understanding Rin, but he didn't become a better person. And since he was a jerk before, this means he get's away with being a jerk. Which doesn't help his case at all.
With all things considered, I feel sorry for Rin. Isolated from society, and the only person that's able to get close to her is Hisao, who is a jerk. The bad end almost seems better, if only that Rin might have a better chance at finding happiness in college, because it's pretty clear that Hisao's not able to be happy for her, or try to chase after her. He comes off as selfish, or self-centered, and never really lucid (in either ending) on what has transpired.
Still, the game's released, and there's no fixing the route. Rihoko friend-zone was pretty bad, but at least she has hope. For Rin, all I can see is tragedy. Fuck you, Hisao Nakai.
Edit: added tags
This is just wrong. Like just factually incorrect. Way to fucking read the route, you just skimmed through the entire story (I was watching because Rin is olev).
ReplyDelete1) The route is about Rin and Hisao's relationship, not the other stuff you listed. Obviously Aura (the writer) could have included the other girls more, but they're not really relevant at all. It'd just make the route more wordy than it already is. I certainly wouldn't have minded more character shenanigans, but ultimately it's not important.
Hisao accomplished nothing? Hisao probably saved Rin's life. Did you not pick up all the suicide vibes from the Art Teacher and Exhibit Lady's story? Did you miss the bits where Rin has multiple break downs? Did you miss the fact that Rin's conflict is that she's alone and nobody understands her?
2) Hisao is human and makes mistakes. Yeah, he's kind of a douche to Rin because he's frustrated and confused by their relationship. He puts so much effort into trying to understand Rin and get closer to her, but she barely reciprocates. One day she kisses him, next day she forgets (meds). They "break up", but she shows up a week later at his room and wants to kiss him because she "needs him". Incredibly mixed signals, Hisao doesn't know what the hell is going on, he feels like he's being strung along and played with. He's upset and he yells at Rin.
Also
"... Rin, who's probably the most stable of all the characters"
"...one of the more vulnerable girls in the game"
Do you even read your own shit wtf.
3)He doesn't get punished for being a jerk because he's not a jerk. If you make the wrong decisions, he gets "punished" by Rin leaving. As for not realizing that what he did was wrong (yelling), that's what the entire good end is: Hisao realizing that he will probably never understand Rin, nor will Rin ever fully understand him. The good end is that their understanding of each other is irrelevant. They don't need mutual understanding to love each other.
I swear you did not read this route at all. Hisao suffers no consequences for his actions? The entire emotional roller coaster of this route is Hisao struggling with what he says/does to Rin and the consequences. Their are so many bumps and obstacles in their relationship. He confesses and gets shot down, he yells at her and they break up, he prods her down a self-destructive path and she leaves him.
The fact that you can't comprehend why the bad end is the bad end shows how quickly you skimmed through Rin's route (it took you longer to read Shizune's wtf). Rin will not find happiness at art school because not only will the art school population obviously not be as accepting as Yamaku, she's still painting for all the wrong reasons. Rin has no chance of finding happiness at a college if she can't find happiness at Yamaku.
For Rin, it's all tragedy for her without Hisao.
I never said a thing that's not factually wrong. You missed my first point, which is not criticism of the path of the route, but Hisao's character in Rin's route. His character is weaker than the Hisao of Shizune or Emi's route.
ReplyDeleteMy second point still stands, he yells at Rin, its a jerk thing to do, he has no justification for doing it. Look at it this way, I was seriously angry at Hisao for yelling at her. There's nothing that happened between him and Rin that I didn't see, and I saw no justification for his anger. If you'll check your thesaurus Stability and Vulnerability are not mutually exclusive.
In the good end, Rin never even leaves him. Yet he's still never punished for, or absolves his actions. "Feeling bad" does not count. To give an example, breaking Arcruied's promise in Tsukihime causes her to try to kill Shiki. However, Shiki had to break his promise due to his deteriorating health.
What it comes down to, is that Rin is in an almost abusive relationship. Can you really say "No, Hisao would NEVER do that!"? Because from the route, I think that's exactly what he would do. Rin never stands up to him, and he never really has any kind of "Checks and balances" that stop him from blowing up at Rin.
I like how you say Rin is a tragedy without Hisao, as if there's any reason she needs him. Suicide is the last thing insinuated in the route. Last I checked, jacking off has never been a warning sign for depression.
I also read pretty fast, so if you can't keep up, I'm sorry.
Hisao's justification for yelling at Rin is because of his frustration with there awkward relationship. Hisao makes the mistake of treating Rin like a normal person, and thus doesn't understand why Rin just can't tell him how she feels. Yeah, Hisao is probably a tad dense. I wouldn't peg someone a jerk for ignorance and misunderstandings. Also, I would say that stability and vulnerability are quite mutually exclusive.
ReplyDeleteFeeling bad does count when the game is a romance novel. Also, Hisao does apologize for being a jerk to Rin after Rin has her argument with Nomiya. Comparing Tsukihime isn't even relevant.
What the hell are you talking about. The relationship ball was in Rin's court for the entire duration of the route. Every move Hisao made was trying to elicit some sort of response from Rin. Never stands up to him? She rejects him and tells him to fuck off like three times.
...I seriously now know you just flat out did not read. As if there's no reason she needs him? She fucking flat out says "I NEED YOU, HISAO." Did you miss ALL of the dialogue where Rin talks about how alone she is and how Hisao helped her not feel lonely? Suicide is the last thing insinuated? There's an entire scene dedicated to the topic when Hisao speaks to Nomiya and Sae.
Also, when you have no fucking arms, are crying and dirty in the middle of a studio when you should be working/sleeping, when someone describes you as "more broken than I imagined a human being capable of", and then ask that same someone whom you have dubious, unclear feelings for to fucking help you finish, I would be a little worried about her mental well being.
You're more dense than Hisao is.
My points still stands, Hisao is still an insensitive and selfish individual, which makes him a jerk.
ReplyDeleteSure he gives her food and helps comfort her, but those actions don't come off as altruistic after his outburst. Rather, it makes it seem like he thinks she owes him something.
Looking at her mental wellbeing, I'd say she never hits rock bottom like Misha does. at least during her art scenes. BUT HEY GUESS WHO MAKES IT WORSE. HISAO. WAY TO GO CHAMP.
And guess what? No one else gets shit on by Hisao, except Rin. Hisao gets yelled at by Emi, but he never lashes back. To put it in perspective, he doesn't even yell at Kenji. KENJI!
Not to mention, you'd think Hisao thinks Rin is interested in him after her letting him touch her, having sex with her, and then having her come to his room and say I NEED YOU. Nope this is an obvious rejection.
The Hanako route made this seem all the more clear to me. While both Hisao's are pretty generic and uninspiring, Hanako's Hisao is able to make more friends, calm the feud between Lily and Shizune, and bring Hanako back into society (and to some extent, himself as well). For Rin's Hisao, the only good thing he did was maybe help her launch her exhibition. Oh wait, the good end has it ending in disaster.
Just give it up man, Rin's Hisao is the worst guy out of all the Hisaos. (Barring MAYBE Lily's Hisao, but 2nd to last place doesn't make you a winner) I like Rin, but the best way I can describe her Hisao, is that "You deserve way better".
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteLilly spoilers ahead. I can't comment too much on Shizune or Emi's path, since I only know of them through random cgs, screenshots and other peoples' opinions.
ReplyDelete~~~
The only thing Hisao ever thought Rin owed him was an explanation - something she couldn't give him thus leading to his frustration the entire route.
While it's unfortunate Aura decided to not write about Hisao's interactions with the other girls it's not really comparable nor particularly relevant. Rin's path is about Rin and Hisao's relationship. It's about them and only them.
The other routes are fairy-tale slice of life with laughable drama and conflicts and confessions(Hanako/Lilly at least). Rin's interactions with Hisao are believable because that's all the route is about - them. On the other hand, Lily and Hanako espousing their love for Hisao is incredibly weak and unconvincing, maybe due to more text devoted to Hisao's slice of life with other characters, maybe not. Hisao may seem more "well rounded" in other routes because of his interactions with more characters, but it's only in Rin's route where the interactions actually believable.
As rock bottom as Misha? You mean boohoo I'm gay for my straight best friend who doesn't reciprocate wahahaha~. Misha in Shizune's route is similar to Hisao in Rin's route. Except Shizune clearly is not interested in Misha (so even though Misha feels upset over her rejection, she has closure) while for Hisao (to him) Rin's feelings toward him are ambigious. Rin, since she's so bad at expressing herself normally, sends extremely mixed signals to Hisao. Kisses him and forgets about it, tells him to bugger off with his confessions, tells him to touch her then to forget about it the next morning. Tell him that she doesn’t care that he’s done with her, then tells him passionately that she needs him the next week. These signal are mixed as fuck - Hisao is justifiably confused about Rin's interest in him. That’s why he yells, because he’s confused. Neither of them can impart on each other how they feel. Hisao yells because he cares about Rin, to let her know how much she is hurting him by not responding. Is it selfish to want to be loved back? If so, then fine. Rin Hisao is the most selfish because he wants to be loved back. Ouch, what a jerk.
No one else gets yelled at by Hisao because Hisao doesn't have a personality in any of the other routes nor does anything happen in the other routes worthy of getting worked up over. Hisao can’t have a personality in other routes because he's nergin /a/non's self insert. In Rin's route Hisao actually has a character, in every other route he's just a bland vehicle whose purpose is to showcase the other girls (Perfect Waifu Lilly, Fragile Flower Hanako). Hisao is conflicted in Rin’s route because everyone else's route and their problems are so incredibly mundane and simple compared to Rin's.
What's Lilly's problem? Oh noes she's going home, long distance relationship drama (srsly?)! While there's nothing wrong with utilizing old romance storylines, Lilly's path is astoundingly generic (and incredibly laughable at times) - the only reason people seem to like it is because Lilly fulfills their nergin fantasies of Perfect Waifu(tm). Same with Hanako. Omg she's so shy and kawaii desu ne, we need to White Knight and protect her! Hanako is for all the sad nergins to wish they could white-knight some girl and she'll hopelessly fall in love their chivalrous ways (slightly subverted with Hanako's bad end, but her bad end has no impact, despite what other nergins may say, because it was completely out of the blue. Bad End Hanako claims to not want to be protected, but that's all she does all route).
Only in Rin's route is there actually a real conflict. Rin's personal problems outstrip Hanako's or Misha's by a mile. Hanako has Lilly to fuss over her (despite not wanting that right?) Misha is still great friends with Shizune. Rin has no one - Emi doesn't understand her (Emi is a great friend to Rin, but not in the way she wants/needs). Hisao may come off as a jerk to you when he yells at Rin, but Rin is the only one to actually evoke a response from him. Hisao has absolutely no feelings in the other routes outside of herpderpIrabyouLillyHanako.
ReplyDeleteRin Hisao is the only Hisao. There aren't any others. The doppleganger Hisao's in the other routes are merely blank slates for /a/non to self-insert into, not unlike Bella from Twilight.
Sure Hisao Nakai can have character and deal with conflict. That doesn't mean he's not a jerk. That's why I say he should've been punished, because as a whole, we don't really see believable character development on Hisao's part other than "I won't get angry at you because I don't understand you now". Actions speak louder than words, and the route doesn't show that he truly loves Rin with actions.
ReplyDeleteA good example of this would be Lily's final ending, where Hisao chases her through the airport until he has a heart attack. He puts his life on the line so he can give Lily a proper send-off. Rin's route? Not so much. He doesn't put anything on the line. Rin's love cannot count in this case, because that would make him SELFISH.
Its funny that you think Misha didn't suffer as much as Hisao, when she learned sign language herself to talk to Shizune and ended up outting herself on her confession. She worked towards understanding Shizune, and put her identity on the line to confess to her. What does Hisao do that Misha doesn't other than having issues with communication?
The main point of this post was that Hisao Nakai is a jerk in Rin's route. It doesn't matter what kind of character he is, if I knew someone that did what Hisao did in real life, I would yell at him. And if I knew Rin, I would punch him in the face.
In the end, they dropped the ball hard in Rin's route. It's not easy writing a non-generic dating sim character, and the writer was unable to create a believable and beautiful relationship. Not only was the conflict unbelievable, Hisao's reaction was unforgivable, and his resolution was laughable. It makes the writer seem naive and amateurish, which is understandable, but bad writing is still bad writing.
Sorry Rin Hisao, but you're a jerk. Don't let me meet you in real life.
Incoming 2000 word reply.
ReplyDeleteGoddammit.